“However, as God would have it, or as the universe would have it, the 17th Karmapa came along….the man is like an angel sent from God. There is something so powerful and so spiritual about this young man. As soon as he came, I think he was 16 or 17 from China. He immediately started talking about vegetarianism. And because of him a large number of Tibetans became vegetarian.”–Maneka Gandhi (2026)
In my recent interview with leading Indian animal welfare campaigner, environmentalist, vegan advocate and long-serving politician, Maneka Gandhi, spontaneously spoke about the Tibetan exile influence on eating and killing animals in India, in particular sharing her experience of the differing impact of the 14th Dalai Lama whom she requested to stop “boasting” and telling people he eats meat, versus that of the 17th Karmapa whom she called “like an angel sent from God/Universe” who had a major positive impact on animal welfare and vegetarian/veganism in India and its impact on the environment. I explained to Maneka that the 17th Karmapa was my main guru and I had also taken a life long vow of not eating animals under the Bodhi tree when the Karmapa encouraged people to do so in 2006, in a landmark teaching for him and the Karma Kagyu at that time during the Kagyu Monlam.
I have made two short clips of these sections of the interview and share them below.
Here is part of the transcript:
MG: “In India the Dalai Lama has caused a big problem because he boasts about eating meat.”
AT: Well, this is a controversial subject. And I spoke to Peter Singer about this as well and a lot of people are very unhappy about this. And I must admit I do have some issues with it.
“MG: I spoke to him and said that don’t do it whether you eat meat or not. Keep it quiet. Don’t make a thing. Don’t say it in every interview. And he then sent me his doctor and he wrote me a letter saying that I will turn vegetarian because of you. So, for one year he became vegetarian. And then after one year he sent the same doctor to me and said that the Dalai Lama believes that he has major health problems when he can’t. So I said well in that case he must suit his body rather than his mind.”
AT: Yes. Well that’s an interesting story but unfortunately in the Vinaya rules the monastic rules, monastics are strictly forbidden from eating meat even for health reasons. So whether you have a health issue or not is considered in the Vinaya rules at least to be irrelevant, unless you’re starving or you’re dying or something like that. So anyway, this is this is a controversial subject.
“MG: Yes, But it should be dealt with. What happened was the Tibetans are not only eating meat they were responsible for all our wildlife smuggling. They used to kill the tigers, send them to Tibet and in return get a deer which was made into a shawl here called the shhatush. Now at one point I became so upset that I decided to campaign to throw the Tibetans out of India. And at that point the Dalai Lama then sent me this letter saying I’ll become vegetarian because I was making a big song and dance of it.
However, however, as God would have it, or as the universe would have it, the 17th Karmapa came along. Now, the Karmapa is I think he’d be in his 30s now. But the man is like an angel sent from God. There is something so powerful and so spiritual about this young man. As soon as he came, I think he was 16 or 17 from China. He immediately started talking about vegetarianism. And because of him a large number of Tibetans became vegetarian.”
AT: Yes. That’s right. And including myself actually I was in India at that time when he gave a teaching under the Bodhi tree at Bodgaya about he was taking a lifelong vow of vegetarianism and we were all asked to take it with him and I did as well. So yes, it had a huge effect on on that culture, but also a lot of people didn’t like him for it as well. So it kind of also made him some enemies I feel because within that within that tradition there were a lot of people and monks eating meat as as you say you know there was the the example of the Dalai Lama and and so when he came out as very like talking about vegetarianism I think it also created some people within the community who were not so happy about that he was saying that but you’re right I think it was incredible. Now with the Bhutan issue then so uh going on to the sort of banning of slaughter houses.
MG: So because of Karmapa animal shelters started in various places in in India. One started in the Tibetan colonies in Karnataka and hundreds and hundreds of people started looking after animals as well because he made it an issue. I went with him to Bodh Gaya several times, because he started an animal hospital there. Unfortunately, he was under house arrest most of the time. So at some point he just got fed up and he left India, and now I’m told he’s in Japan but I’m not sure . I wish he would come back to India because he was changing the whole community.”
The second thing that I need to say is that when the Buddha said “don’t eat meat and go and beg for your food, he would tend to mean specifically that you cannot have Buddhist monasteries in which food is catered to you. So all these Ladakh monasteries and all the ones in Darjeeling, and all the ones wherever the Tibetans are actually live in places where the these things are given to them. And I don’t think the Buddha meant for food to be given to you to you pre-cooked meat to eat.
Then in one in one particular case, the Tibetans in Ladakh would take cows right up to the top of mountains and throw them are and say we didn’t kill them, the gravity killed them. Now that has stopped. But because of the Karmapa.”
AT: Wow. That’s very interesting because I follow the Karmapa. He’s actually my main guru. [laughter] So it’s great to hear that actually. I wasn’t aware of that.”
Gandhi’s comments reminded me of another podcast guest, the influential writer of “Animal Rights” Prof. Peter Singer whom I interviewed about animal welfare, and veganism last year. Singer has specifically characterized this behavior as “absurd”. Given the Dalai Lama’s global status and advocacy for compassion, Singer argues it is indefensible for him to continue eating meat when plant-based alternatives are readily available in India and globally (see clip below).
See also my freely downloadable booklet compilation of the 17th Karmapa’s various teachings on Buddha’s teachings on not eating animals (in original and Tibetan Buddhism), here. Please also sign my petition to put pressure on local authorities to ban the animal cruelty, slaughter and sale of animals as food, in and around sacred Buddhist sites in India.