“I believe my life only has meaning if it reduces some amount of suffering.”
“Unless we change our food choices, nothing else matters. Because it is meat that is destroying most of our forests. It is meat that pollutes the waters. It is meat that is creating disease which leads to all our money being diverted to hospitals. So, it’s the first choice for anybody who wants to save the Earth.”
“I asked the 14th Dalai Lama to stop “boasting” to everyone he eats meat for health.”
“When the 17th Karmapa came to India he was like an “angel” for the cause of animal rights, welfare and vegetarianism in India.”- Maneka Gandhi
Introduction
Here is a new Dakini Conversations interview podcast (recowith an Indian woman who needs little introduction in India: Maneka Gandhi (1956 – ). She is widely known not only as a former member of the socially and politically influential Gandhi family, but also as a leading animal rights advocate, founder of major animal welfare initiatives, environmentalist, vegan campaigner, author, and former Union Minister for Women and Child Development. It is also available as audio only on Spotify and other Podcast channels, like Apple and Amazon.
A few days ago, when I first searched online for a prominent animal welfare campaigner in India to interview, Maneka Gandhi’s name immediately came up. At the time, I knew little of her remarkable and tragic personal history. Only after she kindly (and immediately) accepted my interview request did I learn more: that she was the daughter-in-law of India’s first female Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi, who was assassinated, and the widow of Sanjay Gandhi, who died in a plane crash just 100 days after the birth of their son, when Maneka was only 23 years old.
Despite such profound loss, Maneka Gandhi went on to build a life and carve an influential space for herself, not only as a leading female politician but notable public service to animals and the environment. With the money left to her by her late husband, she founded an animal welfare hospital and later established People for Animals, now one of India’s largest animal welfare organisations. She has been active in Indian politics for over 30 years, and has written several books on animal rights, law, and etymology.
The interview: public service for animals, veganism and women
This was my first time meeting and speaking with Maneka Gandhi, whom people address as Mrs. Gandhi ji. We had agreed in advance that I would not focus on her personal or political life, but on her activities in animal welfare, the environment, vegan diet, and women.
Two years ago, I noted, that Maneka said in an interview: “I believe my life only has meaning if it reduces some amount of suffering.” As a woman and a Buddhist, that statement deeply resonated with me, and it is one I was honoured to discuss with one of the most prominent, powerful and influential women in India. Welcome to Dakini Conversations, Mrs Maneka Gandhi ji.
TV show “Heads or Tails” and banning mandatory killing of dogs
Although we had never met before, Maneka—now 70—was open, direct, approachable yet someone who did not suffer fools too gladly (a bit like myself in that respect). She also shared some fascinating reflections and personal anecdotes about her early interest in animal welfare and creating a TV show called “Heads or Tails” showing how animals were killed. She also explained how they stopped the killing of dogs, which used to be mandatory in India.
The issue of stray dogs
We then spoke briefly about her street dog sterilization campaign as opposed to animal shelters. I shared my own experience with Mrs Gandhi of being suddenly bitten deeply on the leg by a stray dog while near the Tibetan hospital in Dharamsala, early one evening in 2019, and how the locals there said the dog had bitten many people randomly without warning (but was not physically sick). Although the dog was clearly dangerous and harming people, the dog charities told me it was the responsibility of the local council, and they told me it was the dog charities, so nothing wasd ever done. She told me that one of the main issues is also that there is no place to house them, and killing is not the answer (which I agree with as a Buddhist)[i]. Gandhi has recently spoken out against the Supreme Court of India’s order allowing euthanasia for rabid, incurably ill or demonstrably dangerous stray dogs. This is due to increased concerns over biting and injuries of children and citizens. Gandhi spoke briefly on her views as to how best to deal with the stray dog issue in India, which compared to other countries is excessive.
Eating meat in India, and the issues surrounding its sale and export in India, and Tibetan influences (good and bad)
When we moved onto the vegan diet and its importance to animals and the environment, we spoke about how she had told the 14th Dalai Lama to stop “boasting” about eating meat for health as it had a negative influence on people. But also, how conversely, how the 17th Karmapa influenced vegetarianism and animal rights in India in a very positive way and was like an “angel” in that respect. She also shared her thoughts on a popular belief that the Buddha was poisoned by pork as his final meal, as a mistranslation of the original Pali. Other topics, included how she had wanted to ban Tibetans from India, for their role in wildlife hunting (for an animal skins), her views on meat as being the main issue in all environmental concerns and even conflict between Hindus and Muslims (due to their wanting to eat beef/cow).
In terms of killing animals, we discussed the petition I had recently launched on Change.org to request a ban on the slaughter and selling of animals as food in and around sacred Buddhist sites, to which she joked (quite rightly) that all of India was a sacred site! We agreed that it was illegal in Indian law to keep and kill animals that way as one sees in Bodh Gaya, but that it needed people at the local authority to apply the laws, but all too often they were not willing to do so. That it required Buddhists and people there to see the animals and act with compassion and conscience.
“Saving, educating and protecting girls”
At the end of the interview, we briefly discussed her work and activities as Minister for Women and Child Development, during which she told me she had been able to pass laws on pensions for women. And the phrase she coined to reduce the femicide of girls pre and post birth, Beti Bachao, Beti Padhao”: Save girl child, educate girl child.
For the record, I do not follow Indian politics and remain entirely impartial in that sphere. My reason for inviting Maneka Gandhi was to highlight her significant and beneficial work for animals in India. We also touched briefly on her work for women, including some of her achievements in that area, such as pensions.
Whatever one’s political views, Maneka Gandhi stands as a prime example of resilience, intelligence, and courage—someone who has overcome immense hardship and used her life to benefit others in both public and private spheres. The fact that she, as a widower, lone mother and woman who has done that makes it even more inspiring.
For other podcasts on Dakini Conversations on the topic of eating animals, animals rights and the environment, see:
Also for research and translations on eating animals and Buddhism, as well as a pdf compilation of the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa’s teachings on the topic, see here:
Vegetarianism/Animal and Environmental Advocacy
[i] That said, I personally know how traumatizing it can be to be bitten by a street dog. I love dogs and would often feed them biscuits as I walked around Dharamsala, but because this dog was lying peacefully on the ground and just bit me without any warning, a very deep bite in the leg, that took months to recover from, now whenever I see a dog, I instivintively feel nervous and apprehensive. Something only dog bite survivors will understand! Also, the Tibetan hospital nurse on duty refused to bandage it, or give first aid, even though it was bleeding profusely and needed cleaning right away, and insisted I get a taxi to the Indian hospital about fifteen minutes away.