There can be no real friendship without truth and trust.
I have wanted to write something about the 17th Karmapa ‘situation’ for a while now, and thought an appropriate place to start (Part 1) in getting to the ‘roots’ of some of it, would be the clear role of Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse (and other ‘older in age’ Sakya lamas, such as Ogyen Tobgyel) played in the ‘situation’ of the much ‘younger in age’ 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje in India and elsewhere. Such ‘two-faced’ worldly actions have failed to completely stop and undermine the 17th Karmapa, but the ongoing situation of the Karmapa being unable to return to Sikkim and Rumtek needs to be resolved quickly in the public interest. One can only hope that these actions are a thing of the past.
Dedicated to the merit and power of true words! May whatever be true be ‘victorious’ and all lies, fraud and disrespect of women be eliminated.
DJKR’s active encouragement of a woman with zero respect and devotion for the 17th Karmapa
One of the alleged ‘victims’ (J), explains how she was ‘pimped out’ by DJKR to meet the 17th Karmapa in 2015, and then subsequently actively censored and smear-campaigned online by DJKR and members of his community as ‘crazy’. The smear campaign and misogynist/sexist treatment by DJKR sounds credible to me in terms of my own experience as to how female survivors are treated. For example, the extremely shoddy treatment I received from him and the Khyentse Foundation suddenly withdrawing their awarded funding from me based on one unverified email written by someone claiming to be from the abusive teacher’s administration.
However, from the evidence the woman (J) herself provides, it is clear she is not a ‘victim’ at all. For example, some messages she published (which she says were sent by herself to DJKR) show that not only she actively goes to see the 17th Karmapa, but that DJKR encourages her to visit the Karmapa at his hotel, and he does so even after she sends him several messages insulting and degrading the 17th Karmapa’s activities, mental abilities and compares him unfavourably to DJKR.
Does DJKR correct J’s derogatory views about the 17th Karmapa? Does he suggest that she have nothing more to do with him, holding such views about the Karmapa? No. In fact, he not only does not correct her, he actively suggests she go visit him again! (see messages below). Why would he (and she) do that? Hmmm…it does not take a genius to know the answer.
Later, in 2016, after these alleged events, DJKR made a ‘big show’ of inviting the 17th Karmapa to his monastery in Bir, HP, India. Yet, perhaps that was also just a show, like the Deer Park Institute show of ‘fake humility’ (DJKR’s words) to cover up his two-faced machinations and ‘friends’ who had been actively undermining the 17th Karmapa and 12th Tai Situpa for years prior.
The woman (J) then states she was actively silenced and smear campaigned by DJKR and one of his translators (Stephanie Lai), and won a court case against him and them for doing so in Taiwan.
Let us not forget, DJKR is also a teacher who regularly goads and encourages deliberately provocative online debate (on his FB page) on worldly political matters, wasting their time, and encouraging conflict among them. Such actions go against the advice of Buddha in the Brahma’s Net Sutra (as 17th Karmapa recently taught).
The role of Dzongsar Khyentse’s student, Ogyen Tobgyal Rinpoche in undermining the 17th Karmapa and 12th Tai Situpa Rinpoche
One of the first people to publicly react to J’s claim of DJKR’s undermining and ‘trapping’ the Karmapa was his student, Ogyen Tobgyel Rinpoche (OTR) who wrote a letter/post that was shared on social media, which publicly smeared ‘J’ stating that she was ‘crazy’ and mentally ill. This post has since been removed. However, even if J were mentally ill (a common insult directed at women who speak out about abusive men), where is the love and compassion in derogatorily suggesting a woman (who followed and was close to his teacher for several years) is ‘crazy’? Surely there should be more compassion and care for a ‘sick person’, if that is true?
OTR is the same man who actively believed, and encouraged others to believe that the 16th Karmapa’s sacred, and important hand-written letter on his future rebirth given to 12th Tai Situpa was a fraud and fraudulently created by the 12th Tai Situpa. Hardly someone whose word and opinion is trustworthy. Yet, has DJKR, normally so quick to make social media statements about politics and worldly matter, ever stated that OTR was wrong to say that? That Tai Situpa is not a fraud or liar? No.
Sakya Lamas and their role in undermining the 17th Karmapa
DJKR also makes a big public show of his support for his Sakya lineage lamas. Yet, it is undisputed and public knowledge that the Sakya Trizin lamas, the Ngor Rinpoche, and members of the Sakya family, all met and supported the unofficial and unrecognised (other than by 14th Zhamarpa) candidate for the Karmapa, Thaye Dorje.
Yet, with all due respect, they are not Karma Kagyu lineage masters and had no right to get involved in the decision of senior Karma Kagyu teachers and Tibetans in Tibet and exile on their recognition of the 17th Karmapa. Their doing so, suggests worldly issues and politics were involved.
I was recently informed by a very reliable source in India, that the reason for the twenty-four year delay in the 17th Karmapa’s return to Sikkim, is due to court cases instigated by the Thaye Dorje followers, including a more recent one for alleged “money-laundering’ in India, which they started and insisted on. The source told me that it is those court cases that are blocking any movement and so it is also essential that any so-called ‘friends’ of the 17th Karmapa withdraw them immediately. Otherwise it just seems to be some type of ‘blackmail’ to get the 17th Karmapa and Karma Kagyu teachers/followers to do a ‘joint ‘Karmapa’ thing, which the vast majority of Karma Kagyu followers, in particular Karma Kagyu monasteries will never accept or follow, and nor should they be forced to do so. How can there be any friendship or change when they are using court cases as leverage?
Again, subsequent public appearances with the 17th Karmapa, after they openly supported Thaye Dorje for years, and undermined the actual 17th Karmapa by doing so, just seem like a rather disingenuous and obvious attempt to make amends and cover that serious wrong-doing up.
In June 2024, the Sakya lamas posted photos of themselves, apparently iuvited by the 17th Karmapa’s sister to say prayers for her recently deceased father, at the 17th Karmapa’s ‘zimchung’ (small living place) in ‘upstate New York’. Aside from the fact it is not a ‘zim-chung’ at all by the living standards of most people on this planet, one glaring omission in the photo though, the 17th Karmapa himself. The question has to be, where was the 17th Karmapa at that time? If he met them, why would there not be any photos of it? Was he hiding in a closet somewhere? No, that’s more DJKR style I think. Just kidding! ha ha
Let us hope that all these named teachers really do give their full backing, friendship and support to the actual, official 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley and keep out of political attempts to control, influence and even block his activities in India and elsewhere.
More to come….Sakya, Bhutanese, Nyingma and Gelugpa….seems like quite a lot of them had it in for the 17th Karmapa, wonder why?!
Dear Adele,As someone who greatly appreciates your translati
Hello Kati, I did not get your full comment here for some reason. Perhaps you can email it? Good wishes.
Absolutely incorrect analysis written by someone who has no understanding of the Tibetan Buddhist culture and traditions. It may or may not be true that DJKR played a role in the alleged harassment meter out to the lady. If that actually happened, it is unacceptable and DJKR should apologize to her and make amends. However, dragging His Holiness the Sakya Trichen Dorjechang into this mess is avoidable. His Holiness is the most respected and realized lineage teacher after His Holiness the Dalai Lama and we all Tibetans have huge faith and respect for his own wisdom and activities as well as those of his forefathers who played pivotal role in establishing and propagating Buddhism in Tibet and Himalayan regions. Moreover, the late Shamarpa had high regard for His Holiness and received several teachings from Him as well as the late HE Chobgye Trichen Rinpoche. HH Sakya Trichen has maintained mutual respect, admiration and high hopes for both the Karmapas and decided not to enthrone one over another as long as Karma Kagyu community itself is divided. As soon as both and Tai Situpa and Shamarpa camp decided on a single or multiple candidate, His Holiness Sakya Trichen would have no calm to respect such decisions. As such, please don’t drag HH Dalai Lama and HH Sakya Trichen into sectarian mess created by sorrowful situations and malevolent individuals. Hope the Karma Kagyu internal problems can be solved and Karmapa Orgyen Trinlay Doree can visit Sikkim soon.
Thank you for your comment. There are not TWO Karmapas, worthy of that name of lineage and never has been. There is historically and currently ONE Karmapa only. The one predicted in the handwritten letter by the 16th Karmapa, Rigpe Dorje that all the senior Karma Kagyu Rinpoches, Gyaltsab, Jamgon Kongtrul and Tais Situpa agree is Ogyen Trinley Dorje. In addition, the great terton, CHogyur Lingpa revealed that Guru Padmasambhava predeicted that the 17th Karmapa was ‘one mind with Tai Situpa’. So stop saying there are two Karmapa.
It is not a case of the Tai Situpa and Zharmapa camp, as you falsely suggest either. All the senior Karma Kagyu Rinpoches, bar Zhamarpa, and almost all the Karma Kagyu monasteries and nunneries in India, Nepal and Tibet follow and support Ogyen Trinley NOT Thaye Dorje. They are not TWO equal groups at all. Hundreds of Europeans who follow Thaye Dorje have nothing to do with deciding who is the official Karmapa or not and never should have either.
So what has that got to do with the Sakya lamas? They have no business getting involved at all. Why did they support the unofficial Thaye DOrje one for so long? Their public support undermined the one and only official Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje and empowered the unofficial one.
Also, to suggest that the Sakya and especially Gelugpas are not sectarian at all is to ignore three centuries in Tibet of Gelug-Mongolian-Qing Dynasty authoritarian-brute-military rule there, as well as their propitiation of the worldly deity for political and worldly purposes, whom the Dalai Lama/Gelugpas have now banned.
The Gelugpas have also controlled the 17th Karmapa ever since he came to India, making him stay in a Gelug monastery for over 15 years and in Dharamsala, and the ongoing Thaye Dorje court cases for control of Rumtek and possessions of the 16th Karmapa have totally prevented the actual and only 17th Karmapa from visiting Rumtek Monastery. The fact that they have seriously undermined the Karmapa’s ativities and still do in Sikkim and elsewhere is totally shameful and not just due to a few malevolent individuals as you falsely suggest. The malevolence and unethical conduct has come from those who follow and support Thaye Dorje and from the sectarianism of lineages like Gelugpas and DJKR’s student OTR, who are Sakya teacher. Why are you (and others) trying to falsely pretend it is an internal Karma Kagyu thing, when the Sakya clearly got involved with meeting and supporting the unofficial Karmapa for so long? That was wrong and still is.
Please do not make any comment here again, I will not publish it and block it. Do not waste your or my time. It should be obvious to those with a discerning mind that there is, and can only be ONE Karmapa. End of story. The name Karmapa does not make them Karmapa at all, it is their activities, authentic lineage, powers, wisdom and mind.
There is only one His Holiness the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, the one and only, and that is Ogyen Trinley Dorje. This is the consensus of all senior Kagyu Rinpoches (except for Shamarpa Rinpoche, but please note that Shamarpa’s lineage is not entirely clear, so he is not qualified to independently choose the Karmapa’s successor).
Indeed, the way it has been falsely portrayed, and still as a ‘two lama’ groups, Tai Situpa and Zhamarpa is totally misleading everyone too. It has always been the vast majority of senior Karma Kagyu Rinpoches, monasteries and nunneries recognise and follow Ogyen Trinley Dorje and only those of the 14th Zhamarpa follow Thaye Dorje. So basically 95 % of Karma Kagyu in Tibet, India and Nepal follow one Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje. Thaye Dorje;s followers are mainly Europeans who follow Ole Nydahl and the Diamond Way Buddhist centre.
Gosh Adele, thanks to your invaluable website, and for your relentless pursuit of the truth, i am slowly being educated on the harsh realities of buddhist politics – and indeed, what an unholy mess it is!
These peeple are supposed to know a thing or two about karma, are they not?!
And yet, they seem to act as if there is no such thing as ’cause and effect’ – just totally inexplicable!
Last week i happened to be at Samye Ling in Scotland, and i was asking somebody there if the 17th Karmampa had actually been there, and they sed that he had recently been to London, but for ‘political reasons’ was unable to go to Samye Ling.
So am wondering if you have written about this also in part 2?
Your courage in exposing these uncomfortable truths is why i am supporting your website – so necessary!
Very best wishes.
jon
Welcome! No I have not written about it, and do not plan to do so either. I am putting aside writing about the 17th Karmapa and his situation for now at least. Much of what I have written seems to have fallen on “deaf ears” and no real changes of direction or attitude. In addition, not only have members of the Karmapa’s community actively undermined and ignored years of effort and work to support, protect, preserve and promote his work and activities, I have now faced actual bullying, defamation, impersonation, punishment, sabotage and attack for doing so.
So , for now at least, I think it is better to put my time, energy and focus in places and people who I can at least meet in person! Or who genuinely seem to value my work, activities, voice and presence. I do not write for popularity or praise, but when communities are actually trying to “punish” me for my voice, work and activities, then it is time to pause and reflect on if the energy is being spent in the most effective and beneficial way. The petition for Karmapa to return to Rumtek being a prime example. Very few people close to him in his community or volunteers etc publicly at least shared or supported it.
Thanks for your kind words, support and encouragement though! I know there are also many “silent” others who value and read it, and I do not forget that.