Introduction
“It’s the truth I’m after, and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance.” – Marcus Aurelius
For the third episode of Dakini Conversations, I speak with British journalist and writer, Mick Brown about his life and writings, mainly about his important investigative report/book The Dance of 17 Lives: The Incredible True Story of Tibet’s 17th Karmapa (originally published in 2004). The Youtube interview includes time-stamped chapters and English subtitles (click on CC) are included for easy reference. It is also available as a podcast on Spotify, Apple and Amazon Music.
Mick Brown (born 1950 in London) is a British journalist and author who has written for several British newspapers, including The Guardian and The Sunday Times, and for international publications and currently works for newspaper, the Daily Telegraph. He is also a broadcaster and the author of several books about travel, music and spirituality. His second book, ‘American Heartbeat: Travels from Woodstock to San Jose by Song Title’, was shortlisted for the Thomas Cook Prize for best travel book in 1994. His book ‘The Spiritual Tourist’, catalogued contemporary spiritual quests around the globe, particularly in India. As a journalist, Brown has interviewed well-known figures such as Salvador Dali, the Rolling Stones, James Brown, Ravi Shankar, Diana Ross and more. A list/links of Brown’s articles on music is here.
As I mentioned recently in an interview, it was reading Brown’s book ‘The Dance of 17 Lives’ on a plane to India for the first time in 2005, that led me to meet the Tibetan Buddhist master and lineage head, 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje for the first time. This meeting led to my completely changing my life as a qualified lawyer and strategist in the City of London to take up practice, studies of Tibetan language and philosophy, later to become a scholar, practitioner and translator within the tradition. Brown’s book tells the story of the 17th Karmapa, the spiritual head of a 900 year old main lineage of Tibetan Buddhism, Karma Kagyu and the serious, internal dispute by the 14th Zhamarpa over his recognition that led to the 17th Karmapa (even now) being unable to visit and teach at the 16th Karmapa’s seat of Rumtek Monastery, Sikkim.
Brown’s book is unique in that he is not a Buddhist and generally independent from Tibetan Buddhism and thus was able to interview all the main people involved in the 17th Karmapa recognition, including the 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje, the 12th Tai Situ Rinpoche, the 14th Dalai Lama, the 14th Zhamarpa and his candidate, Thaye Dorje.
In our interview, Brown speaks about how after his book was published he was also accused of lying and completely untrue accusations on a website called The Karmapa Issue (which has since been taken down) as well as with legal action by the 14th Zharmapa and his associates. Brown told me nothing really happened and he stood by the content as he had audio-recorded all their interviews.
In particular, Brown’s investigation challenges a common public misconception that the dispute was equally weighted within Karma Kagyu on both sides (as is also misleadingly stated in the 16th Karmapa biography on Treasury of Lives). In fact, what becomes clear from reading the book is that other than the 14th Zhamarpa, Ole Nydhal and his mainly white, European followers and a handful of lamas loyal to him, Zhamar had very little support within the Karma Kagyu in Tibet or exile, nor with the 14th Dalai Lama, who (rightly or wrongly) has been giving the official seal of tulku recognition (including those of the 16th Karmapa and 14th Zhamarpa) since the 17th century. Support for the Zhamarpa in fact, mainly came from Sakya, Nyingma and Drikung Kagyu lamas based in Nepal and Bhutan, who really have nothing to do with the recognition of the Karmapas at all, yet chose to associate with/support Thaye Dorje despite that. One can only imagine how they might feel if Karma Kagyu teachers and followers (or other lineages) decided to interfere with the official choice of the Sakya Trizin or Dilgo Khyentse recognition, for example.
The current 17th Karmapa on the other hand, has always had the backing of the vast majority of Karma Kagyu teachers, monasteries, nunneries and followers inside and outside Tibet, as well as the official seal and support of the 14th Dalai Lama, who at that time was considered both the political and spiritual leader of Tibet.
Below is my synopsis/review of the book’s contents, in which I conclude:
“Reading Dance of 17 Lives, eighteen years after I first read it on my first flight to India, made me weep profusely, not only at the miraculous abilities and mental states of both the 16th and 17th Karmapa, but also at the fact that eighteen years on, the 17th Karmapa who with his vast activities and progressive thinking on female empowerment and equality, environmentalism, vegetarianism, animal rights as well as his extraordinary Dharma teachings and research, who has proved himself more than worthy of the name Karmapa, is still unable to visit, stay and teach at Rumtek monastery and is without his own centre/monastery in India. It is with that concern I write this review, so that others may also wonder and demand to know, why that is still the case.”
This interview and book review have not been created with the intention to further conflict or ill-will to anyone (after all real devotion cannot – and should not – be faked or forced), but to make people aware of Brown’s independent account of it with an open and objective mind, in order to get a clearer picture of what happened and why even now the 17th Karmapa cannot visit and teach at Rumtek. In addition, students are advised to examine and check a teacher very well for at least one year before taking them as a Vajrayana guru.
Brown finished by mentioning his new forthcoming book called Nirvana Express: How the Search for Enlightenment Went West (Oxford University), including high profile case studies such as Somerset Maugham, Allen Ginsberg, Timothy Leary, and the Beatles.
May this interview and book review be of benefit to the 17th Karmapa, his return to Rumtek, and his Dharma activities and the flourishing of the Karma Kagyu teachings!
Music? Soul legends Ain’t No Mountain High Enough by Diana Ross, What’s Going On? by Marvin Gaye and Games by Bobby Womack and the lovely biographical song, Karmapa Khenno by Tsona Dawa.
Written and compiled by Adele Tomlin, 29th May 2023.
Dance of 17 Lives book by Mick Brown – review and synopsis overview
The Karmapa tulku system, one Karmapa, a prediction letter and the amazing abilities of the 16th Karmapa
In the first part of his book, Brown documents the unique feature of the Tibetan tulku system and how the Karmapas leave a prediction letter regarding their future re-birth, followed by a brief account of the remarkable life and miraculous abilities of the 16th Karmapa, Rigpe Dorje, who reinstated the recognition of the 14th Zhamarpa (his nephew), after it was halted after the 10th Zhamarpa by the Gelug government.
Brown also details the takeover of Tibet by Chinese forces, their escape into India, and settling at Rumtek. Here is a lovely short video of the 16th Karmapa teaching the four ‘heart-sons’ as young boys at Rumtek.
As well some tension in exile about the ongoing Gelug power and domination over Kagyu and the other lineages, which had been the case since the Mongolians violently took over Tibet and put the Dalai Lamas/Gelug as the sole power there, Brown discusses the 16th Karmapa’s teachings abroad, particularly in the US and gathering many devotees there, such as his female translator and founder of Tilogpur nunnery, Freda Bedi (see here) and his performing the black crown ceremony, citing Mary Finnigan’s remarkable vision of him as Chenrezig while doing it. [For a film of the 16th Karmapa giving the black vajra crown ceremony in the USA in 1980, see here. Also, Achi Tsephel his former translator, talks about his memories of the black vajra crown ceremony here.]
There is then a moving account of the 16th Karmapa’s passing away in the USA in November 1981, and what Brown states in the interview was his amazing Bodhisattva attitude at the hospital despite having serious cancer of his caring for the staff there, as opposed to them caring for him. [For more on that, see this article here].
Ending of a revolving regency and imposition of a sole regency at Rumtek of 14th Zhamarpa by new general secretary, Tobga Yulgal
In a chapter called Honey on the Razor-blade, Brown identifies that according to people there at the time, trouble started at Rumtek after the 16th Karmapa passed away, with the entrance of Tobga Yulgal, a former monk who escaped from Tibet with the Karmapa and was allowed to use the title Rinpoche, even though he was not a recognised incarnation.
Tobga also became very well-connected with the Bhutanese when in 1966, he disrobed and married the sister of the King of Bhutan, Ashi Choeki Wangchug [author’s note: this certainly explains the past and continuing Bhutanese support of Thaye Dorje and their lack of support for the official Tibetan choice, 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley].
Brown details how he was seen as ‘smooth’ and yet also ‘cold’ character who had also been accused of smuggling gold and money, but charges were dropped after the Bhutanese royal family intervened. Tobga was also suspected of poisoning Damcho, the then general secretary of Rumtek during the time of the 16th Karmapa, who died an hour later of a suspected heart attack after meeting Tobga and there were signs of poisoning on his body.
Brown then explains how after the 16th Karmapa’s passing, Tobga and 14th Zhamar assumed full and sole control of Rumtek, despite there having been an agreement made in December 1981, that there would be a revolving regency of Rumtek every four years of the four main Kagyu heart sons 12th Tai Situ, 12th Gyaltsab, 3rd Jamgon Kongtrul and 14th Zhamarpa Rinpoche.
During his interview with 14th Zhamarpa in a hotel in November 2000, Brown reports that Zhamar told him that the reason the revolving regency was ended was because he was the second most important Kagyu teacher in the Karma Kagyu after the Karmapa, and only he had the legitimate authority to be the regent of Rumtek and decide the Karmapa’s incarnation. Despite the fact that for the past few hundred years, the Zhamarpas never played any role in recognising the incarnation, and also that the Karmapas left a prediction letter declaring their next incarnation and that was what it was normally based on.
12th Tai Situ’s discovery of the 16th Karmapa’s prediction letter in 1989 and his announcement to all the Kagyu heart-sons in 1990 and 1992
After the 16th Karmapa’s passing in 1981, Tai Situ tells Brown that for several years they were unable to find anything, but when he went into a series of solitary retreats in September of his ‘obstacle year’ of 1989, he remembered a sown up cloth talisman, given to him personally by the 16th Karmapa (in 1980, ten months before he passed away) telling him it would ‘protect him’, and decided to open it. The letter inside was worn and tattered to some degree as Tai Situ had been wearing it for years, but he states it was clear the handwriting was the 16th Karmapa’s and it was a prediction letter. It also said the letter should not be opened until 1990.
Bizarrely, due to being unable to meet all the Rinpoches at the same time, and not wanting to declare it in a hotel room in a meeting in 1990, at which Zhamar was not present, Tai Situ only informed them all about it in March 1992, when all the Rinpoches could meet together. He told Brown that he recalled that Zhamarpa looked unhappy when he told him and told him he doubted its authenticity, whereas the other Rinpoches looked happy. Nonetheless, with the agreement of them all, they began the search for the tulku based on the letter, with the 3rd Jamgon Kongtrul as the leader of the search party.
Below is a brief video clip of three of the four Kagyu heart-sons talking about Tai Situ’s discovery of the 16th Karmapa’s handwritten prediction letter. In the interview, Jamgon Kongtrul just before his tragically fatal car accident, states: ‘it is very clear and precise, and we are confident it will lead us to find the Karmapa’. So it is clear that (despite others suggesting the contrary) Jamgon Kongtrul did accept Tai Situ’s discovered letter as authentic, which means three out of the four main Kagyu heart sons accepted were in agreement about it.
In addition, Tai Situ’s discovery of the prediction letter and the young boy, matched the words of the prophecy given by Padmasambhava about the incarnations of the Karmapas, revealed by Chogyur Lingpa (150 years previously) that the 17th Karmapa would be ‘one mind with Tai Situ’ [for more on that, see here]. They inform the 14th Dalai Lama about the letter.
14th Zhamarpa accuses 12th Tai Situ Rinpoche of deception and forgery in relation to the letter and demands it be forensically tested
Brown describes how the 14th Zhamar then broke vajra samaya and publicly accused Tai Situ of deception and forgery and plotting to get the Chinese to take over Rumtek and Sikkim. However, these accusations were not accepted as true by the Karma Kagyu lamas nor by the 14th Dalai Lama.
In addition, Tai Situ Rinpoche told Brown he refused to allow Zhamarpa to let the sacred letter be forensically tested in a lab either, and that he would ‘die nine times before that ever happened’.
Fatal car ‘accident’ of 3rd Jamgon Kongtrul in April 1992 before going to Tibet to search for the Karmapa with the letter
Sadly, however, the 3rd Jamgon Kongtrul was unable not only to lead the search party (as suggested by Tai Situ, but also to attend the enthronement, having been fatally killed in a tragic car accident in Siliguri, India, on the 26th April 1992 (when he was only 37 years old just before he was due to leave for Tibet to search for the young tulku. His body was taken to the Kalu Rinpoche monastery and stupa nearby the crash, where he is said to have entered thugdam.
Brown explains that no post-mortem or investigation was carried out on the cause of the car accident. but reports suggest it looked like some kind of bomb explosion (the engine was flung some distance from the car), which some allege was a planned assassination by those connected to Tobga Yulgal (a close friend and relative of the 14th Zhamarpa and the general secretary of Rumtek), who had arranged mechanics from Bhutan to service the new car. Tobga disappeared from Sikkim afterwards to Bhutan, some say because he was a prime suspect behind what they considered an assassination, not an accident. [For more on the 3rd Kongtrul’s life and passing away, see here].
Tai Situ Rinpoche told Brown that he did meet with the Chief Minister of Sikkim, N.B Bhandari (just after the Minister had a private meeting with Shamar Rinpoche, which Tai Situ was not allowed to be present at) to request an investigation into the car accident of Jamgon Kongtrul but because it happened in a different state, he was told it would be difficult. The following day the Shamar Rinpoche left for America and they did not speak at all.
A new search party is then formed with Akong Rinpoche and they go to Tibet and find the tulku in the place and with the parents as described in the 16th Karmapa’s letter in May 1992.
14th Zhamar enters shrine room of Rumtek monastery with armed Indian soldiers that leads to a two day strike by the Sikkimese government for misuse of Indian army by a Tibetan Buddhist lama
Brown then explains that after the tragic death of Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche, Zhamar (supported by his followers) then changed his mind about accepting the letter and boy as authentic, and embarked on various actions not only to try and get Tai Situ and Gyelstab Rinpoche evicted from Rumtek so he could regain control of it, but also to put his own (newly-discovered and previously unmentioned) candidate, Thaye Dorje on the throne.
On 12 June 1992, when the traditional 49 day puja for Jamgon Kongtrul had just finished, a frustrated and infuriated Zhamar (whose sole regency had now been ended by the Kagyu lamas at Rumtek as had that of former general secretary, Tobga) then turned up alone at Rumtek with two jeeps of Indian military escort with guns, and interrupted a public meeting there with around 400 people listening to Tai Situ and Gyaltsab Rinpoche, in the presence of senior Kagyu lamas Ponlop Rinpoche, Thrangu Rinpoche and Bokar Rinpoche, announcing the discovery of the letter, the Dalai Lama’s sacred vision and their search party in Tibet to everyone.
Brown states in the interview that fighting and chaos broke out with monks trying to prevent them entering the shrine room with guns. Brown reports that Zhamar Rinpoche strode into the shrine room at Rumtek with his armed escorts. Once inside the shrine room, Shamar jumped on a wooden table and shouted: ‘Soldiers and Rinpoches to stay. Everyone else leave!”
The Rinpoches fled upstairs and monks physically tried to stop the armed soldiers from entering the shrine room. This unprecedented use of the Indian military with guns to enter a Tibetan Buddhist monastery and shrine room in Sikkim, led to great outrage of Sikkimese politicans and locals as to why or how he had been given Indian army support from central government without their consent, or being informed. It later transpired the Bhutanese royal family had requested the military assistance and the Sikkimese state government went on a two day strike as a result of the abuse of Indian military power.
As a result of the intensifying conflict and division, the 14th Zhamarpa told Brown how in June 1992, his Nyingma lama teacher Tulku Ugyen Rinpoche (and his son Chokyi Nyima) met with him and pleaded with him to accept the incarnation, which by then had the official seal of recognition from the Dalai Lama, and so he then issued a letter accepting it (letter can be seen below here).
“On March 19th, 1992, at a meeting with Jamgon Rinpoche, Gyaltsab Rinpoche and myself, Situ Rinpoche presented a handwritten prediction letter from his protection pouch, claiming it was the written instructions of H. H. the 16th Karmapa (indicating his reincarnation). I had some doubts (about the letter’s authenticity).
At this point, I rely on Situ Rinpoche (giving me correct information about H. H. the Dalai Lama’s decision), Relying on our confidential discussion, I go along with the decision made by H. H. the Dalai Lama that a reincarnation has certainly been found as reincarnation of H. H. the Gyalwa Karmapa.
Hence, I suspend my demands such as having the handwritten prediction letter being subjected to a (forensic) test.”
June 17th, 1992. Shamar Chokyi Lodro witnessed by Tulku Urgyen. Translation of Anne Ekselius authorized by Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche
The birth of the 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje to a nomad family in Tibet and his recognition by the Karma Kagyu lamas
While this was all going on in India the boy who came to be recognised as the 17th Karmapa was born in Tibet in 1985. Brown documents the miraculous signs before, during and after the birth of the Khampa nomad boy in Tibet, Apo Gaga. For example. it was reported a conch shell resounded for one hour in that area after the birth on the same day, which unbeknown to them was predicted in the 16th Karmapa’s letter.
The story of this boy, who went on to become the 17th Karmapa, is accompanied by interviews with the 17th Karmapa, his sister and family. Brown details his subsequent recognition by the Karma Kagyu lamas in June 1992 based on the 16th Karmapa’s prediction letter and other tests they conducted. He shares a fascinating anecdote of how Akong Rinpoche, who was part of the search party in Tibet, revealed how the 17th Karmapa showed that knew that he had asked the previous Karmapa for a tooth but never got it.
Official seal of approval by the 14th Dalai Lama
In accordance with Tibetan Buddhist protocol at that time, the official seal of approval for their discovery of the boy (the Bhugtam) was given by the 14th Dalai Lama on 30th June 1992, who told the Karma Kagyu lamas he had also had a dream about the location where the 17th Karmapa had been born that matched the place where they had found him [see video of the Dalai Lama speaking about that dream here].
Enthronement at Tsurphu Monastery
Although they wanted to enthrone the boy at Rumtek, permission was denied and he was enthroned in September 1992 at the main seat of Tsurphu monastery in Tibet, with Tai Situ Rinpoche and Gyeltsab Rinpoche in attendance, and he was the first Tibetan tulku to be formally recognised by the ruling communist Chinese party officials.
For a video of the young 17th Karmapa’s life and activities at Tsurphu, see The Lion Begins To Roar documentary made in 1999 just before the Karmapa escaped from Tibet. See also a documentary film by Ward Holmes about the 17th Karmapa’s return to and enthronement at Tsurphu in 1992, see here.
14th Zhamar’s candidate, Thaye Dorje, publicly announced in January 1993 but not recognised due to lack of any clear, substantive evidence to support his recognition
Unable to take back Rumtek by military intimidation, or verbal persuasion, Brown then documents how various court cases were then launched between 1993 to 1998, as well as the Zhamar’s public announcement of his own candidate, Thaye Dorje in January 1993, after Ogyen Trinley Dorje had bene official recognised and enthroned.
Zhamar again made appeals to the 14th Dalai Lama and the Karma Kagyu lamas, who all rejected his candidate, Thaye Dorje due to what they said was a lack of clear, objective evidence or signs that he was the Karmapa. For example, Tai Situ said that any parent who says their child is Karmapa is clearly not the Karmapa. Brown documents how the Zhamar and his associates, even accused Tau Situ and the 17th Karmapa of being Chinese spies and how such court cases and accusations led to Tai Situ being refused a visa to return to India for three years.
The 17th Karmapa’s Life-threatening escape from Tibet in 1999
Also, things were not all well in Tibet either, Brown reveals there was an attempted assassination of the young Karmapa, which he seemingly managed to escape from due to ‘knowing’ two men were hiding in his library. Brown explains how gradually, the Chinese tried to monitor the young Karmapa’s movements too strictly, refused to let him travel to India, and even requesting him to publicly denounce the 14th Dalai Lama which he refused to do.
Such actions, as well as the 17th Karmapa’s wish to meet his Karma Kagyu teachers based in India and to take up his predecessor’s items at Rumtek, such as the black vajra crown, led him to escape from Tibet.
Brown eloquently documents how in December 1999, the 17th Karmapa embarked on a dangerous and life-threatening escape from Tibet into India in the pitch black of night and the depths of ice-cold winter to avoid being caught by Chinese guards. Brown interviews the 17th Karmapa and those who escaped with him, such as his attendant, Drupngag (who tells Brown that 17th Karmapa saved his life on the escape) and the brave hero, Lama Tsewang Rinpoche, then abbott of Nenang Monastery of the Pawo Lineage [here is an interview in Tibetan with Lama Tsewang speaking about the escape.] For more about Lama Tsewang and photos of the escape group, see here.
There were several reasons for his escape, and in an official statement he gave to the media in India in 2001, the 17th Karmapa said the main reason was to receive the empowerment, transmissions, and instructions of his own Karma Kagyu tradition teachers who were residing in India.
Brown’s interview with the 14th Dalai Lama – only one Karmapa, no prediction letter and no evidence to support Thaye Dorje as a viable candidate
The 17th Karmapa is welcomed in Dharamsala by the 14th Dalai Lama and attends a welcoming ceremony , at which the Sakya Trizin is also present (see video here). This is somewhat ironic as afterwards the Sakya Trizin and the entire Sakya family, and teh recently deceased, Ngorchen Rinpoche publicly and openly met with and supported Thaye Dorje many times, the reasons for which remain unclear. [Also, as you can see in the video, the Dalai Lama at this point in time is still treated as the spiritual and most senior leader of all the Tibetan Buddhist lineages, something which historians and scholars might say was, and is no longer legitimate].
In any case, the 14th Dalai Lama told Brown, that he had explained to 14th Zhamarpa when he again pleaded with him that the prediction letter was a fraud, and to recognise his own candidate, Thaye Dorje (after the enthronement of the 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley), that the Karmapas traditionally leave a prediction letter and only have one incarnation. That Tsurphu is the main seat of the Karmapas in Tibet, and their main seat in India is Rumtek. So there was no question of going along with Zhamarpa’s suggestion of Rumtek being given to the ‘Indian Karmapa’ and Tsurphu for the ‘Chinese Karmapa.’
Concluding Remarks – the passing of 14th Zhamar and recent meeting between the 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje and Thaye Dorje
In any case, despite numbers of FB page followers (which can be misleading in terms of actual followers) what is undisputed in all of this, is the vast majority of Karma Kagyu followers and teachers, as well as the main Karma Kagyu monasteries in Tibet, India, Nepal, Bhutan, America and Europe, as well as the 14th Dalai Lama, do not recognise Thaye Dorje as a legitimate or a second emanation of the Karmapa.
HE Thrangu Rinpoche, one of the main Karma Kagyu teacher of the heart sons at Rumtek monastery, and later the main tutor to the 17th Karmapa, also stated during the dispute that there is only ever one Karmapa incarnation and prediction letter, and one can only really judge who is the Karmapa by their lineage transmissions and activities.
To this day, it is still unclear as to what basis the 14th Zhamarpa saw Thaye Dorje as a viable candidate other than that the father of Thaye Dorje, Mipham Rinpoche stated his son was the Karmapa. Yet, undeterred by the lack of substantial evidence or support, the Zharmapa and his followers (predominantly white Europeans following the controversial Danish lama Ole Nydhal), continued to act as if their candidate was an authentic choice. The 14th Zhamarpa passed away in 2014 and the 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje (demonstrating his great compassion), despite what had happened previously, conducted rituals for his passing,
Brown’s book was published in 2004. Sadly, although the 17th Karmapa recently met with Thaye Dorje (who is no longer a monk and married with a child) in October 2018 (said to be at the urging of the Dalai Lama) as a sign of good will and friendship, the court cases and aftermath of the mud-slinging and false accusations by 14th Zhamarpa (and his associates) such as being Chinese spies and lying fraudsters, still linger on. For example, the 17th Karmapa is still unable to visit or teach at Rumtek monastery.
Brown told me that he sees their recent meeting as an attempt by the 17th Karmapa to offer friendship and harmony in accordance with the Buddhist way. Yet, of course, genuine trust and friendship only works if both ‘friends’ are sincere and genuine. Without the authentic Karma Kagyu lineage teachings, transmissions and Dharma activities, then whatever people say or think, they are not, and cannot be the Karmapa. Devotion simply cannot be forced upon people, no matter what courts or lawyers might have to say.
Reading Dance of 17 Lives, eighteen years after I first read it on my first flight to India, brought tears to my eyes in various sections, not only at the miraculous abilities and mental states of both the 16th and 17th Karmapa, but also at the fact that eighteen years on, the 17th Karmapa who with his vast Dharma activities and progressive thinking on female empowerment and equality, environmentalism, vegetarianism, animal rights as well as his extraordinary has proved himself more than worthy of the name is still unable to visit, stay and teach at Rumtek monastery and is without his own centre/monastery in India. It is with that concern I write this review, so that others may also wonder and demand to know, why that is still the case.
Written and compiled by Adele Tomlin, 29th May 2023.
Interview with Mick Brown – timestamped chapters
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:59 Reasons for becoming a journalist for British newspapers
00: 03:59 Music journalism, interviewing great soul music legends like Rolling Stones, George Harrison and Aretha Frankln
00:06:29 Giving up writing music and the incredible charisma of Diana Ross
00:08:40 Influences of the beat poets, spiritual quests in India
00:10:11 East meets West spirituality and music, his book the ‘Spiritual Tourist’
00:12:15 Wanting to write a book about the 17th Karmapa after his escape from Tibet
00:13:44 Writing ‘America by Song Title’ and meeting Tibetan Buddhist lamas in the USA
00:16:12 Music compilation album to accompany book The Spiritual Tourist
00:17:28 ‘Dance of 17 Lives’ book Chapter 2: A ‘factory of saints’ the tulku reincarnate teacher system and the prediction letter of the Karmapas
00:19:29 Amazing, other-worldly powers of 16th Karmapa
00:22:23 The Dalai Lamas/Gelug control over Tibet and Kagyu, and their giving the official stamp to the Karmapa recognitions
00:24:43 The Chinese communist takeover of Tibet and escape into India
00:25:36 Gelug and Kagyu tensions, the Thirteen Settlements organisation, and alleged assassination of their leader, Gungtang Tsultrim
00:26:00 The ‘Shangri-la syndrome’
00:28:12 16th Karmapa’s move to Rumtek, gathering many western students and centres and remarkable passing away in the USA
00:30:29 The Golden Rosary of Kagyu, four main heart sons, the banning of the recognition of the 10th Zhamarpa
00:33:25 Honey on the Razor-blade: the new general secretary of Rumtek, Tobga
00:35:56 Tobga and Zhamar take total control of Rumtek
0:39:27 Relaxing of restrictions in Tibet and Tai Situ’s discovery of the handwritten letter in 1989
00:42:58 Announcing the letter to the four heart-sons, which Zhamar questions as a forgery 00:44:48 Jamgon Kongtrul killed in fatal car accident
0:45:47 Zhamar’s insistence that the letter be sent to a forensic lab and allegations that car accident was planned
0:47:50 The birth of the nomadic boy later to become the 17th Karmapa in Tibet and Akong Rinpoche’s story about the tooth
00:50:01 Zhamar launches a battle for control of Rumtek
0:53:00 Petition signed by Kagyu lamas stating they only recognised Ogyen Trinley, and Zhamarpa is persuaded by Tulku Ogyen Rinpoche to accept the incarnation and issues a letter
00:55:54 Zhamar’s second appeal to the Dalai Lama with his candidate is rejected
00:57:41 Another incident/fight at Rumtek caused by Zhamar ordering the shrine hall to be locked during the rainy retreat
1:00:02 The background regarding the Zhamar’s candidate of Thaye Dorje
1:02:04 Meeting Thaye Dorje and the lack of formality or charisma
1:04:13 Tobga returns to Sikkim and again tries to take control of Rumtek with a group of monks
1:05:02 Lawsuits issued by Zhamar and his associates, criminal complaint filed by former Rumtek monk of collaboration with Chinese that led to a 3 year ban on Tai Situ travelling to India
1:06:23 Negative effects of ‘Chinese spy’ false accusations on the 17th Karmapa’s status and movements in India
1:09:22 Interviewing the 14th Dalai Lam
1:10:48 17th Karmapa’s dangerous and life-risking escape from Tibet in 1999 and being heavily restricted in India on his arrival
1:13:50 Reaction to Brown’s book after publication, legal threats and false attacks and accusations on the ‘Karmapa Issue’ website
1:17:16 Accusations that the Dalai Lama had been conned and/or was trying to control Kagyu through the recognition
1:19:00 Dalai Lama’s disagreement with 16th Karmapa who did not want to get involved in the politics and the ‘yellow umbrella with a crooked top’ comment about Dharamsala
1:22:51 Concerns about the way the Dalai Lamas/Gelug took over Tibet and their legitimacy
1:26:48 The recent meeting of the two Karmapas
1:28:59 Lack of information about the 17th Karmapa’s current location and possible reasons why he is still not allowed to visit Rumtek
1:31:29 Concluding remarks and new book, Nirvana Express coming out in September 2023